Im super excited for you!
But the radiant heat system will demand hot water almost continuously during the winter. So far, this is a work in progress. Under the wood floor, I expect to see shorter lags.. but like you, I also have a fun woodstove for instant heat blasts. I didn't mention we did lay slate or travertine tile in the two bathrooms and (real) wood floor in the bedrooms. He wont have this problem because by luck or good advise he has a self balancing valve. Theory: /shop/heating-system-supply-piping-diagram-19353. Did you make this project? Although I lived in Chicagoland I found a home across the border in NW Indiana where the taxes are 1/3 of Illinois and commute downtown is a breeze. I appreciate your instructable and your undertaking such a project. Running a closed heating loop with a thermal reservoir (a tank) can allow you to use a lower heating hot water temperature and cycle your boiler as needed to heat the tank. One of my childhood tasks was taking the key and letting the air out of all the radiators so that they would be all water and no air and heat properly without gurgling. This works much better in my opinion.
6. in the grand scheme an indirect heater to protect from the open loop is small change. In Iowa where it usually gets to and above 100 degrees for a week or so there is no way of getting by without cooling and dehumidifying the house. http://greensboro.craigslist.org/mat/4313121319.html, Roch Naleway The indoor air quality of our house last winter was a real bummer, especially considering what we had to fork out to buy the house. Your experiments will surely lend some practical insight for me. So, one needs to insure not only will your boiler and PEX system deliver enough heat, but will your floor move that heat into the floor and then into the room. What do you think about running some of the radiant heat loops in the shower/underneath the shower pan/tub and the walls? Reply
You can put it in under tile or wood flooring (not sure about carpet). Ah! This is one of the more common installation practices for new construction. Then just pressurise with a bicycle pump, take a pressure reading & go have a coffee. Its probably too late for gypcrete, but I highly recommend it. Why dont you share with us a challenging DIY project instead of these cupcakes!!! I built a large utility core with plenty of room for two water heaters as the one designated for the floor would be set low, and space for me to get in to build the system and make adjustments. Holy cow the pictures look awesome and I couldnt even imagine the hard work and studying you have had to put in.
I live in a bubble. I decided to reduce the thermal mass of mine (to reduce heat up time) so I only laid a 40mm slab, to do this I decided to reinforce it with chicken wire. Looking back, it probably would have been more efficient to just bulldoze the house and build it from scratch, but that is always the case with fixing up old houses.
Ours relies on electricity, though if we were in a good area for solar, we could heat the water with the sun. It might not be worth it if you buy it, but you can make one rather easily with a little ingenuity. When my small construction company was building some houses from the ground up a few years ago, the architect highly recommended that we use hydronic (radiant) heat instead of forced air. Paularado Using PEX under the floor makes the installation much simpler than copper (where youd need to solder elbows every time you turn a corner). You are assuming that all 6 zones will have an equal flow. I ordered two sizes up and the system is now working beautifully.
Julien B. Ouellet These diagrams do not show fittings, hangers or details that are "site specific" necessary for proper installation and function. Normally when you have different lengths of circuits you will run into flow issues because of the whole path of least resistance from shortest to longest length. You *think* that this cold water will flow to the outlet. I want to build neat energy-saving features into it, but they need to be cost-effective and homegrown whenever possible. That said if you dont balance it right it will work like crap :), To keep things non-promotional, please use a real name or nickname(not Blogger @ My Blog Name). Thanks. I decided to go with forced air since I already had floor registers cut in tile floors, duct installed in all the impossible to reach-in-a-retrofit spots, and I really need AC as well. I am in Scotland and we use around 2.5L of oil, and a basket of wood a day in the depth of winter. Id like to see you try THAT!! Depending on the thermal resistance of the floor this may be more than can be moved at the assumed delta T of 10-15 degrees. Thats because its so efficient. February 18, 2014, 9:50 pm, I built and designed my house and included radiant heat in the concrete slab. :D. Hi, The system works via pex pipe, a small pump, a water heater, and a thermostat. Its an easy way of slightly reducing your energy consumption.
Have you put thought into the hydraulics of the system? 5404 Hoover Blvd Ste 14 And I have a general life policy that I dont care at all about voiding warranties.. but I will still add this to the reader corrections section. I dont mean to brag or anything but with a lot of help one time I put in a hot water heater. Julien, I wasnt sure if the DWHR would be worth it, but recently did the first measuring on the unit. The pipe is very unwieldy especially in a coil that long, so I built a big spool for it and added dolly wheels so it could follow me around as I unwound pipe. I kid of course, there is only a few articles you have that I disagree with but building boxes and jumping I can easily give a thumbs up!!! It isn't off grid, but could be used that way. ). We offer our services to professional contractors, homeowners, and anyone in need of high-quality, yet affordable radiant and electric floor heating equipment. Just my two cents. Going with a natural gas tankless system is a good idea. Neat stuff! Yes! Let us know how it goes! Plus lots of passive houses use heat recovery ventilation units with some resistance heat elements included for backup. There is no noise other than the quiet hum of the little pump and the usual water heater sounds. The concrete was vibrated in using a hand held vibrator whilst being levelled. Theyre very good on electricity usage, as well. I am only looking at your drawing and do not know what others have said, but make sure you add a high point vent for starting up the system and a low point drain for the inevitable drain down. This is radiant heat in action: a warm surface shines out infrared light (also known as heat), which directly warms your skin. This is a great point. The heating system consists of a thermostat which is wired into a relay transfer switch. The pump has to be strong enough to deal with the resistance in over 900 feet of 1/2 pipe.
He meant that in a good way. DIY difficulty I didnt want. The cats love it. It gets worse if/when you discover that one pump isnt enough and you add another pump.
My primary heat source is a wood burner stove with wrap around boiler. The diagrams display connections of major components in your heating system as well as locations for critical valves, gauges etc. Insulating below the Pex helps even more. There are no ducts and no blowing dust, and the system operates silently. With a hot campfire on a still mountain night, you can feel completely warm even when the air temperature around you is below freezing. I had planned for the bathrooms and bedroom to have flooring, so the foundation was formed accordingly. You can also buy tankless heaters with two independent loops: one for heating, one for potable water. It works much quicker because its only 1.5 inches and very lightweight, airy, concrete with flooring over the top. For this system the boiler controls the water temperature, so we can pick the temperature of the water. February 18, 2014, 10:11 pm, A useful story Brock, thanks!
Anyway, about your place. Is there a good reason not to do this? February 19, 2014, 12:31 am. 4141 S Tamiami Trl Ste 23 I may reconsider your design, and just make the water hotter. PEX rails help to ensure an even spacing for the layout pattern. Best of both worlds :-), Paularado We took a lot of layout photos so we could remember exactly where all those pipes fell. You might want to look into the specifics of the model you are considering or maybe look at commercial models. I have already run this by a system designer and received his nod of approval, and completed some of the installation, so I am sure we can get this to work. (ii) Add an electric heater, so there is a back up in case the main boiler needs attention. F. Thermal conductivity loss is negligible and the increased viscosity results in about a 6% greater pumping requirement/energy. There are only a couple weeks in the summer I could really use the central A/C, but a window unit suffices. Designed dormers on each side of our home to act as skylights because of the vaulted ceilings, but without the hassle (leaks, mold, concerns over snow accumulation). The heating demands for your home will be far greater than heating demands for potable water, so Id manage efficiency there first by eliminating a heat exchanger, and use the tankless heater for showers and such. Take a look here for some info : http://delafleur.com/blog/?m=201012, Marcus de la fleur But nothing you cant handle. Installed in-floor electric radiant heat in the kitchen and bathrooms to heat tile and slate to ensure our feet were toasty warm in those important areas. Roch Naleway I wish you, Mrs. MM and the youngster many years of happiness in your new radiant floor heated home! figured you wouldnt take offense at the question. Our PEX is in gypcrete, which adds a whole lot more radiant mass and efficiency. A few electric space heaters or electric baseboards are easy to throw in and that allows tuning zone temps using your own kWh from PV on the roof. They were on wheels and in the morning, before they went to work, they rolled the tanks in front of their large south-facing windows. They are priced per Manifold and/or Heat Source. The heater supplies water at 120F (you wont want to run hotter than that for a radiant set up) assuming that your underfloor space temperature is 90F (30 across the PEX, 10-15F drop across the floor and a floor temp of 75-80) and your PEX loop dumps all the way down to the underfloor temp youve got a delta T of 30F in your water loop. February 21, 2014, 6:09 am. Looking at that steel reinforced wall has me wonding how you attached your framing to it? February 19, 2014, 11:57 am. I designed and installed these systems for years in the Midwest. 3 years ago. Mr. Money Mustache Engineered wood is less liable to splitting in that way, but perhaps that is what you have, it is still real wood.. ;). Yes, and the photos in Step 7 show the two bathroom areas. Sounds like your main issue was with the time lag with a heavy slab to heat up. When you look at the typical boiler room in a luxury house, there are all sorts of valves and sensors, and miles of meticulously soldered copper from the $35,000 plumber. But the best part may be that you have constantly warm feet, wherever you go in your house. I took extra measures to keep from oversizing the FCU and to keep the system quiet and efficient. A happy medium may be using PEX between the water heater and manifold and any transfer spaces where the heat transfer isnt wanted (i.e. why cant we run boiler on electricity? Wire ties affix the PEX pipe to the wire mesh or rebar (typically every three feet) to ensure the pipe stays in place as the concrete is poured over the pipe and wire mesh or rebar grid system. 3. put in solar hot water panels. Cost was $2.45 per 4-foot plate ($245 for each box of 100). As the final cheat sheet, here is my shopping cart from PexSupply, my preferred supplier of plumbing stuff. As a counterpoint, there are other ways to achieve this. February 21, 2014, 1:01 pm, For information on radiant heat flooring this blogger is building a whole home from scratch in Alaska with ICF and shows step by step pictures. Will there be glitches? Heat pump water heaters are a great option though when an all electric standard water heaters can be replaced. February 26, 2014, 10:11 am. Protect your company name, brands and ideas as domains at one of the largest domain providers in Scandinavia. And now it all gets covered up! Finished house but yet to connect up underfloor pipes yet so thanks for the instructable, Answer
MacGruber About: I'm a writer and illustrator of books for children and Marvin is a craftsman, carpenter, and retired building contractor.
:-), 4 years ago Hi thanks for the question and cool photo! Mark, There is a new ideabook on Houzz.com about this http://www.houzz.com/ideabooks/21634442?utm_source=Houzz&utm_campaign=u439&utm_medium=email&utm_content=gallery15, Brock Hammill The blower sat on top of a moldy mildewed wood plenum box, that, upon tearing the system out, I found a dried up rat carcass in the bottom of. The only heat loss of any note is along the exterior walls, otherwise we find no significant difference in different areas. 24850 Old 41 Ste 7 I have seen a lot of conversations about the potential for stagnant water in an open system. I work in a process industry and proper line sizing and length of those lines is very important to insure that each line will receive water equally. Good luck and let us know if you install a system! Aluminum is an excellent conductor of heat, so using aluminum heat-transfer plates is an effective way to install a high-performing radiant floor heating system when concrete overpour on the surface of the floor is not an option. I have learned to do my own plumbing, and new technologies have come down in price that make radiant heat much more affordable. Purchase a 2 coil indirect water tank, one coil for the solar ( bottom) and the other for the boiler. While thats true, you also have a significant process delay the time it takes for a change in PEX temperature to cause a change in the room temperature. This is a good stand-alone system if you can live without AC. It all works surprisingly well, which is why this method of heating is surprisingly popular. Are you the owner of the domain and want to get started? But theres always a backup: most modern houses without ducts use a ductless mini-split air conditioning system for cooling. The water flow in each loop is highly dependent on the resistance of the loop compared to the reistance of every other loop. Also look at the conditions it is designed to work under. Great write up MMM. Try contacting the company we listed in the Instructable. Looks very promising, though could be hard to regulate the heat that flows into your house. February 18, 2014, 5:11 pm. February 18, 2014, 6:38 pm, Cool, or Hot, one, put a close spaced set of tees for a solar thermal loop, sweet them in, put a ball valve on each one and cap it for now, ya got them in.
I am pleased to hear more people are using radiant heat (of all types). There are a few micro cracks, but I will be laying a tile isolation mat to ensure these don't carry through to the tiled floor when I finally get around to it. This will allow you to tune the flow in the loops. Ours was on the cold-water side, before the heater.). a cold leg means no flow, no flow means dead water. That way you could use distilled water with a closed loop system for the hydronic and avoid scale buildup. Basically, you run a dedicated circuit to a system which uses resistance in an electrical wire to make heat under the floor. Heating with hot water is relatively common in the UK. We probably only changed the temperature 5 or 6 times the ENTIRE TIME! November 17, 2014, 4:55 pm. 3 Your capital costs seem modest. Pleasecontact usfor a quote or more information. Take another cue from industry and eliminate flushing of the system (save for once every 30 years) use PEG on your closed loop. The water heater TP relief valve is sufficient. So during a large master bath remodel, we put in an electric system. I though for sure you were going to need collar ties and a center load bearing beam for the roof. So I bet it will be pretty easy to balance everything out. Did I just get lucky and find a deal on a Rheem tankless water heater or is this not the kind of model youd want for a project like this? I love radiant heat. February 21, 2014, 4:40 pm. To answer your question, yes the perimeter is the biggest heat-loss so that's why they recommend starting from the outside and working in, but you have an intriguing idea. I built a sub-floor on top of a vapor barrier then laid the wood floor in the conventional manner. This domain has been purchased and parked by a customer of Loopia. 5. If you would like to see pics of my installation, please forward an email address I can attach them to. but I can explain my reasoning for that if desired in another comment. It is designed to supply both domestic hot water and heating hot water, in separate loops, for just think kind of thing. I added 66 welded wire fabric (WWF) aka concrete reinforcement wire and used that to tie down the pipe. I know the thought of it hurts but why not spend another $1,000 and use two Rheem heaters. 4 years ago, Do you find one side of each zone is warmer the the other with hotter water coming in and slowly cooling as it flows thru the system.
I wish you luck with the project! The oil is typically only to keep the background temp overnight, provide our hot water requirements for showers in the morning, and any daytime running before we start the wood fire. That fire place looks to have some ideally placed thermal mass. Tampa, FL33634 The second issue was the size of the pump. We almost didnt pass the home inspections because the inspector was not familiar with the primary heating solution we were using: When my husband and I built our home in 2001, we decided to do the following: I have manufactured manifolds for my radiant. Check out cansolair.com. Do what industry does on heating systems circulate year round. lYX>Y7K?v|^8X5/_ GyKq,7++:F'Wbq:! 8(5b"^ |yL X 0& It works, but it is not elegant: they make noise, waste a surprising amount of interior space with ducts and chases, and are a hassle to install or upgrade. Good stuff and stoked to see youre going with radiant. But I followed the standards, having no experience with the system, and no willingness to take a jack-hammer to the floor later to redo it all! I see the thermal expansion tank in one of the pictures. The first step was to install a vapor barrier over the gravel base inside the stem wall, and then insulate. I will add a system like this if necessary, but we will be sure to test out a summer without air conditioning first, since the place is likely to be even more comfortable than our current house, even without cooling.
Yes, that is true. Or are those black horizontal and vertical bands pieces of steel you put in to help with this problem?
Some of the MSHPs can actually provide enough heating for a whole house your size at high efficiency down to minus 13 degress (as long as the air molecules are moving the air still has heat to be extracted!). Place your expansion tank on the cold water side of the boiler. This is fine for me, as I find warranties are generally useless anyway. As I go through my house renovating I am adding it as well. Matt. ;a|43sHPKm]yff NCLWF1)7lejoddj15f+ iAwN6nuGdD#zX>::_` v{ZXU$_zL3W}aJy'yH{`6Xq5euI+.N}l0B 't1]kMP{Z@ " z{(E% T4ESu'Zm]U#e?0gz!u}hLKv]'{cNSL06Z"$`xj]YN S.
http://www.rinnai.us/boiler/product/q175c I think you would still need a insulated heating hot water tank to smooth things out. I renovated my current 100 year old 1300 sf home to accomodate a family of 4.
They can probably guide you to hook this system up to an instant water heater. You can also download a free program from Uponor and read more information there than I will include here. Once the pipe is securely fastened, a layer of lightweight gypsum concrete is poured over top of the piping creating a smooth, solid surface for the floor. (Or pushing, depending on which side you have your pump on. This is why I have always gone with forced air furnaces in the past. It was a basically a dust pump installed in a nasty crawl space. I used zip-ties to tie down the pex pipe. Tankless water heaters can be set up in series. MM Wannabe I wanted to make sure there were no leaks before that 4 inch thick concrete was poured on top of them. PEG (polyethylene glycol) is the primary component of antifreeze, is more viscous and has higher thermal capacity than water.
I love that youre going with hydronic heat. As for the wood, yes seasoned indeed - I pulled it out of a house remodel about 25 years ago and it had been aging more in the barn for a number of years before I installed it. I prefer the use of an indirect system, where the main circuits are sealed and filled with corrosion inhibitor (useful if the system contains aluminium, copper & ferrous materials). If you have never heard about this, youll want to tune in. There was a shift that happened in my mind when I realized I didnt need stuff to be satisfied. That said I think there are a couple of potential pitfalls that you should watch for, or be prepared to address if they arise. Many passive houses have such reduced heating/cooling demand that only 2 (upstairs/downstairs) mini-splits are used to heat/cool even in Vermont (http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/just-two-minisplits-heat-and-cool-whole-house).
Search available domains at loopia.com , With LoopiaDNS, you will be able to manage your domains in one single place in Loopia Customer zone. All the time, due to process delay, the room thermostat is saying we need more heat! Slowing the pump speed also will not fix this, because the boiler is at its minimum, putting 11,000 BTU/h into the water. Go ahead and click on any titles that intrigue you, and I hope to see you around here more often. The same contraption came in handy later when I wired the house. Sure does sound wussy when I put it on paper. This is likely tens of minutes long due to the slow conduction of heat through PEX and wood.
Your response time is fast and its good to see an article on something more impressive than radiant heat and roofs. Mr. Money Mustache We are still in the minority with our home features. February 18, 2014, 10:44 am. It had a boiler and those old-fashioned iron radiators in almost every room. Non-plumbing comment: did you just build up off the lower level wall framings top plate when you pushed the roof up? I bought a 1,000 foot roll of 1/2 pex pipe. Since I was building the house from scratch, I could easily run the wire in the walls and over to the utility core. This way it doesnt get hotter than it must. I dont see a way to do it here. I sanded and did a clear finish, didn't want to hide that beautiful aging.
1. K^,:vK]Mqws,ar^)d&.ee a#Km>\R Further criticism about this experiment showed up. Its right in the middle of your large living space. February 20, 2014, 3:08 pm. My system also provides the domestic HW via a tempering valve.
OR, create two-loop system with a heat exchanger in between the two loops, so the heating water never touches the hot tap water. 
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